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Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21842	Posted - 2015.04.27 09:50:32 - [1] - Quote Tuttomenui II wrote: I haven't got around to running any yet. But Since they require a fleet to really get a good reward I would say that is more important. And justifies the reward. If you could go solo and get the same reward then it would definitely be over kill. A fleet as requirement is nothing that balances something out. Besides, there is no shortage of greedy people. I don't care about the income, but I care about the lack of risk. At least my momentarily perceived lack of risk. What kind of risk is there involved anyway? It's definitely not hard enough, so that one doesn't count. It's too predictable to be dangerous. The highest risk seems to be that people CONCORD themselves, which doesn't count either, because that has nothing to do with the NPCs. ECMing logi? Nope. Smartbombing them? Nope, server bugs it out. Lowsec? Nope, people are cowards. So ... what are incursions, besides easy money making? What content do they provide for anyone but those who run them? Does anyone remember that these are mostly run by carebears? Does anyone remember how people whined when their mom got popped, (lol) calling people griefers for ending an everlasting way t o squeeze money out of it? Please... provide answers. I'm curious. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21842	Posted - 2015.04.27 09:54:41 - [2] - Quote Otso Bakarti wrote: Ever hear the saying, "Mind your own business?" Or, in this world of the Duly Entitled, are you queen? Oh. Incursions are content created by CCP. It is their game after all. I guess they can create content, too, if they WANT to. This thread looks like it's caught a lot of folks that don't have enough to do. Address what is being written, carebear. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21842	Posted - 2015.04.27 10:08:22 - [3] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Otso Bakarti wrote: Ever hear the saying, "Mind your own business?" Or, in this world of the Duly Entitled, are you queen? Oh. Incursions are content created by CCP. It is their game after all. I guess they can create content, too, if they WANT to. This thread looks like it's caught a lot of folks that don't have enough to do. you sound very bitter whats the crack? As was said, he doesn't want to lose the cash cow. I wouldn't mind the income if there was any actual risk involved getting it. Still waiting for a response to what risk there actually is. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21842	Posted - 2015.04.27 10:13:58 - [4] - Quote Pedro ... no offense ... but it feels like you overshot that one a bit... Btw ... I am Sol ... ... and I don't have an incursion alt. :p Mostly because it would be of no use and only provide me with money ... ... and unlike most people I wojld be ashamed of myself of needing a 100% guaranteed way to make it. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21842	Posted - 2015.04.27 10:19:30 - [5] - Quote Bullshit. There is always a risk involved when other players can interfere successfully. There is no way to ruin the day for incursioneers, though. You are a carebear. A griefer and coward. Hiding behind an alt that's only made for ISK making. You only care about your ******* wallet. Post with your main! Show me you have at least tiny balls! Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21842	Posted - 2015.04.27 10:34:11 - [6] - Quote Go dec them and see what happens. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21881	Posted - 2015.04.27 11:03:21 - [7] - Quote Otso Bakarti wrote: Oh were this slightly entertaining, I'd participate more fully. Alas, the risk/benefit equation forbids. *wanders off seeking a roll of duct tape - to tape the arms back on his Carebear-«* No balls whatsoever. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21884	Posted - 2015.04.27 11:07:42 - [8] - Quote Pak Narhoo wrote: Yesterday we barely hit 40.000 players online (for a few minutes), last thing CCP is going to do is ever so slightly pss people off to have even less people online. On top of that (your OP sounds like a whiny with tears filled one) if you don't like Incursions, do* something about it (n game). It's a sandbox, kick over their castle or are you to cowardly for that? Yeah now do tell how, too, genius. Because if there was something people would obviously do it! So? Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21884	Posted - 2015.04.27 11:13:48 - [9] - Quote Otso Bakarti wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Otso Bakarti wrote: Oh were this slightly entertaining, I'd participate more fully. Alas, the risk/benefit equation forbids. *wanders off seeking a roll of duct tape - to tape the arms back on his Carebear-«* No balls whatsoever. It's enlightening input such as this that warms my heart toward you. Such expertise....on something. I asked questions. You not only provided no answers, you also hide like the griefing forum big.outh you are. You can delusionally feel like a bigman all you want ... ... you show you have no balls. None. Zero. Post with your main. Address what is being asked. Try it, carebear. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21884	Posted - 2015.04.27 11:15:38 - [10] - Quote FunGu Arsten wrote: Please lets get real... i've done incursions for years, fced HQs, Assaults and Vgs - multiboxed vgs - assaults ( with and without isboxer).. There is no easier way to collect isk then incursions, the risk is minimal as it has all been documented and writen down to a science. You generate alot of isk in a few hundred pilots wallets through 24/7 highsec grinding with 39 equal minded pilots (HQ) However, incursions do generate content and "fun" factor as most communities build around this content are open for everyone, you can hop on talk about random things - shoot red crosses etc... While not dedicating yourself and your gametime to said community - you go and leave when you want. Incursions have great things, and horrible things.. the total isk injected into economy is even worse. BUT we all do it, because its easy. I'd rath spend 10hrs (1 long day =2.5bil) doing incursions then 20-30 or more hrs something else for the same ships i can get blown up in pvp. tl'dr? or just didn't care, well here's some math: play 1hr : 200mil isk play 3hr: 600 mil isk !! 3hrs x 5 days x 4 weeks : 12bil isk made in highsec per month, so if you play a few hrs after work/ after kids are in bed your 1 account has over 11bil extra after plex costs. > weekend warrior? 3hrs 4 days : 2.4bil in 4 saturdays or sundays compare the hrs played vs low/null/wh on an individual wallet income ( just 1 account) , and make it scale with 40 people earning the same isk. AND once an incursion is up, the sansha gods just keep on giving and you can farm them continuesly. Farm them while you can, but lets not drop to ****** levels and say that incursions are hard or risky Unlike the griefers you at least are honest about it. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.

Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21884	Posted - 2015.04.27 11:16:52 - [11] - Quote You are still dodging my questions from the first page, griefer. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21884	Posted - 2015.04.27 11:20:37 - [12] - Quote Anyhow... thanks for confirming once more that carebears are ... ... cowards. ... bigmouths with nothing behind. ... incapable of actually addressing anything directly. ... only ever care about themselves. Otso Bakarti ... the lowest of the low. Thanks! Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21884	Posted - 2015.04.27 11:22:19 - [13] - Quote 2Sonas1Cup wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Dracvlad wrote: 2Sonas1Cup wrote: Or drastically drop their payouts not the point of killing them but to a more balanced level compared to other highsec activities. Highsec Incursions payout WAY too much for the risk and time you take. Many people run incursions to plex accounts log out for the month. Theres little to no incentive to do anything else in the game once you start running incursions, you wont stop, and you will not do anything else other than your casual pvp on a random alt when the opportunity arises. Incursions are a decease, they are killing/killed a major part of the game, took the need of doing and trying different things to make isks. Hell theres not even a reason to leave highsec anymore, whats the incentive of null when you can make as much or even more in the safety of highsec? Please put an end to incursions, its been far too long already, sanshas must go. I don't run incursions, but I have no issues with other players enjoying them, if you want to apply some risk go and war dec some of their corps or gank them, or get into an Incursion with a logi and let them die, but for the love of god stop whining about them because you are incapable of interdicting them, HTFU or WOW is more suited for you! you know most incursion groups tell you not to bother joining if you are wardecced, your argument is pretty invalid, incursion groups are aware of how to avoid the little risk involved. So what there are still ways to attack them... Please enlighten us with your ways. Or more like, fail ways. When incursions started there were a lot of mechanics to explore people werent aware of, many fleets used to lose ships every now and then through some of these mechanics. But now its all said and done 90% of the risk is gone with very well known protective measures. Theres literally nothing that you can do about incursioners other than your regular gate ganking in between stages when people travel, even though you need a lot of planning, effort and pilots just to kill a single tanked battleship if all goes well. Even goons fail to stop incursioners, unless its a random afk guy off a station not in fleet or something. You know something is wrong when null players have highsec incursions alts to make isks for their null pvp activities. Is that really the eve you want to play? CFP even removed GCC chaining, which was perfectly fine before but the scum of the cluster whined until they removed it. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21884	Posted - 2015.04.27 11:31:49 - [14] - Quote FunGu Arsten wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Anyhow... thanks for confirming once more that carebears are ... ... cowards. ... bigmouths with nothing behind. ... incapable of actually addressing anything directly. ... only ever care about themselves. Otso Bakarti ... the lowest of the low. Thanks! Though agreeing with incursions are easy, dont be so shortsighted to say that only carebears do incursions.. i know plenty of pvpers and wh-ers that do incursions for the quick isk injections. I'd also like to point out that waving a stick and trying to hit people for doing a particular "thing" in the game is just sad on your part. There's no need to insult people or put people into a box. All they're doing is playing the game ccp is providing. IF you want to adress the horrible isk injection it can be done without poking the fatbellies that hop on their alt to farm sansha gold.... The ISK is nothng I care about. It's the constant whining about risk, people who shoot them, deliberate ignorance, wannabegood person attitude, wishing ill and death onto others, hell ... list is long! Incursions would be fine if it wasn't for the smug griefers who have no balls whatsoever and keep holding CCP hostage. Because without the lowest of the low incursions could be a thing that wasn't isolated from people who want to interfere, as the game usually allows people to! And if you believe people can interfere successfully, then please tell us how to do so! If there was anything that could be done, people would do it! Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21884	Posted - 2015.04.27 11:56:20 - [15] - Quote FunGu Arsten wrote: Solecist Project wrote: FunGu Arsten wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Anyhow... thanks for confirming once more that carebears are ... ... cowards. ... bigmouths with nothing behind. ... incapable of actually addressing anything directly. ... only ever care about themselves. Otso Bakarti ... the lowest of the low. Thanks! Though agreeing with incursions are easy, dont be so shortsighted to say that only carebears do incursions.. i know plenty of pvpers and wh-ers that do incursions for the quick isk injections. I'd also like to point out that waving a stick and trying to hit people for doing a particular "thing" in the game is just sad on your part. There's no need to insult people or put people into a box. All they're doing is playing the game ccp is providing. IF you want to adress the horrible isk injection it can be done without poking the fatbellies that hop on their alt to farm sansha gold.... The ISK is nothng I care about. It's the constant whining about risk, people who shoot them, deliberate ignorance, wannabegood person attitude, wishing ill and death onto others, hell ... list is long! Incursions would be fine if it wasn't for the smug griefers who have no balls whatsoever and keep holding CCP hostage. Because without the lowest of the low incursions could be a thing that wasn't isolated from people who want to interfere, as the game usually allows people to! And if you believe people can interfere successfully, then please tell us how to do so! If there was anything that could be done, people would do it! Sadly you're sounding like someone who got rejected from a community... however, there are plenty of things you can do to deal with incursions. > blow up logies, blow up fcs - hint use alpha ;) > inflitrate 4 ships and get 30 x 2-3bil blown up easy > form a 25-30man hq fleet and pop moms \O/ > strike fear and warp around 20 tornados, you'll get results just by beeing there you're making it sound like you were mistreated by some "carebear" and you have no idea how to hurt them back. rejected by community or contested by another... There's enough ways, but they too require help/friends/coordination. You can keep talking out of your ass all day .... if there really was anything that could be done against a group of incursion runners, then ... ... people would do it successfully. ... this thread would not even exist. That is literally all that needs to be considered to mark your words as bullshit. If there was anything people would do it! Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21885	Posted - 2015.04.27 12:17:25 - [16] - Quote Brutus Utama wrote: Love how the OP is moaning about carebears... where do all your ships come from? and the mods? from the carebears who mine and build them.... eve without carebears you would all be stuck for ships and stuff..... back on topic never done incursion its never bothered me i have no opinion on them.... Thanks Another delusional carebear argument. Just so you know, if carebears stopped mining and building ships then the rest of the player base would start doing it, because it would be worth it. The difference is that those who aren't carebears know how not to die and don't whine about other people playing the game as it's intended! Mining and manufcturing aren't "carebear activities" per se, they are simply mostly done by them because these people are carebears! Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21885	Posted - 2015.04.27 12:24:46 - [17] - Quote So, if it can be done ... why do you need that bet? The only thing that keeps you from needing to prove your bullshit ... ... is the fact that most people including me don't have 100 billion ISK. You just once more prove that you are a bullshitter. There is no need for that bet. Prove that I'm wrong. You say you can do it so do it. Everything else is just plain bullshitting. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21886	Posted - 2015.04.27 12:37:40 - [18] - Quote And still you ignore actual reality. If it could be done ... ... people would do it. Continuously, I might add. I refuse to keep repeating myself over and over ... ... just because you ignore reality. Prove it can be done. Show us what everyone else is doing wrong. Show us there's a point to even trying. Or stop talking out of your ass. kthxdie. ingame, of course. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21886	Posted - 2015.04.27 12:40:17 - [19] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Lan Wang wrote: i mean clearly is an issue when nullsec incursion dont get run because highsec is safer and the payouts dont warrant the risk. People do not generally do incurisons in null sec because it is increased risk (mainly because moving to it) and sigificant hassle compared to their normal activities, once in 0.0 we had an incursion appear nearby, some people wanted to run it, but many people did not have suitable ships and found it too much hassle to set up for it, so nothing came off it. Its basically more to do with people setup to do a certain type of PvE and not keen to go to the extra effort and risk to run them. But thats the fault of hisec isn't it, stifles yawn... Who said anything about "fault"? An unbalanced thing is unbalanced no matter who it benefits. The current situation is basically lvl 5 missions all over again. CCP broke lvl 5s in a patch, which allowed people to run them in high sec (if you picked the right agent and had the standings with the right 'near highsec" lvl 5 agents to decline ones not in high sec). People got used to them and CCP didn't fix the issue for a long time. Then CCP finally got around to fixing them because lvl 5 missions were never intended to be in high sec, and the high sec people screamed bloody murder and "why u nerf us!!?!". Why ccp didn't learn that you can't put overly lucrative farmable pve in high sec after that I just don't know. But they did, while making "better paying" low and null incursions that actually pay LESS than high sec incursions because high sec is safe enough to spawn communities of multi-billion isk pirate incursion boats. IMO the entire incursion thing need to be rethought, but I know that's a low priority for ccp because the don't seem to much care about balance among PVE activities. Can confirm this bug. Happened in dodixie. The Search Party 2/2. Funnily enough it was rather easy to run with a speedtanking rifter and a cane. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21887	Posted - 2015.04.27 13:07:31 - [20] - Quote FunGu Arsten wrote: 2Sonas1Cup wrote: Lan Wang wrote: i too want to see youtube video of blown up machariel/vindi and logi fleet in highsec Just wait 5 more years. FunGu Arsten is planning. Or should we say,.. hes planning to kill his own fleet because hes a incursion FC. And then show us on the forums that incursioners arent safe and the isks we make in highsec incursions is balanced. lol, actualy as said before it isn't balanced, the isk injection is stupid high for no risk. that doesn't mean we're not allowed to do it - aka: milk the cow. as for burning down a full hq fleet: get 4-5 logi alts, fly incursions for a couple of days on each. On one particular sunny afternoon get all logis in the fleet and stop repping in a TCRC, abandon wrecks when popped * bring in neutral tanked ROKH fit with salvager and tractorbeams Collect billions - while you rep yourself - when done colllecting free loot, align out and when the rokh is taking scrams warp out 4 -5 logis and sacrifice the hero rokh after you've stored loot in the logis. \O/ see some chat channels close on you while you count the isk. Thanks for posting how you would do it. I can see that you agree the risk is pretty much non existant, because this approach ... fully legitimate ... is a one trick pony ... ... which needs a huge amount of investment for a one time thing. Any other ideas that could actually have an impact? Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.

Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21889	Posted - 2015.04.27 13:36:06 - [21] - Quote There is no engaging group PvE in highsec. Incursions aren't engaging. The only remotely engaging PvE is burner missions ... ... until they are equally predictable to run. Anything that can be read up on prior to doing it ... ... is not in any way or form engaging. And you just prove the point about the typical carebear selfishness. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21889	Posted - 2015.04.27 13:38:36 - [22] - Quote Vincent Athena wrote: The entire risk vs reward argument is flawed. The fastest way to make ISK in the game, in terms of ISK per hour is station trading. It carries absolutely zero risk of losing a ship, as you never need to undock. Given the existence of station trading, I see nothing wrong with incursions. Except that traders are risking billions, because trading is a PvP activity. You're not a trader it seems. Traders can't predict what will happen, unlike incursion runners. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21889	Posted - 2015.04.27 13:40:24 - [23] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: FunGu Arsten wrote: lol, actualy as said before it isn't balanced, the isk injection is stupid high for no risk. that doesn't mean we're not allowed to do it - aka: milk the cow. That's what I do, because I don't see it changing. Fun fact, the more people getting on the "milk the cow" bandwagon, the lesser the income will be because the number of sites at the same time is limited. No more than 15 HQ fleet (this would already be lower isk/hours because of the delay to get another site would start showing up) will ever be able to get a payout at the same time. 600 character can effectively max it out. If everybody were to put their bling ship where their mouth is, everybody would constantly get contested and chance are incursion would be in "respawn" mode more often after episode of rage popping moms. Reminds me of how the griefers raged about the goons for killing their moms. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21889	Posted - 2015.04.27 13:52:22 - [24] - Quote I think you quoted the wrong person, 2boobs1cup. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21890	Posted - 2015.04.27 14:04:12 - [25] - Quote I did not write "see you agree". Don't put words in my mouth. Okay so you say alpha can do it. That's right. This brings up the next questions: Is it worth it enough to fund another run? (loot mechanics apply of course) Is it actually disrupting the activity? Because one trick ponies don't count. Shooting down one ship doesn't count either, as it doesn't disrupt the activity. I'll just ignore the rest, because you will just put more words into my mouth. Thanks! Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21890	Posted - 2015.04.27 14:08:46 - [26] - Quote This thread should be changed intk ... What can we do to continuously disrupt the activity of incursion runners? That would put it into a better view. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21890	Posted - 2015.04.27 14:28:43 - [27] - Quote It's weird ... I thought you two were on the same side. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21891	Posted - 2015.04.27 14:39:49 - [28] - Quote Wow you come with a lot of bullshit ... There is no way of disrupting incursion fleets properly. Anything else in space can be disrupted. Your answers are worth nothing, because they aren't viable. At best you have proven even more that it's not possible to properly disrupt their activities. So thanks for nothing and let's hope people find a way to get rid of you lot. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21891	Posted - 2015.04.27 14:45:19 - [29] - Quote lol facedesk Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21891	Posted - 2015.04.27 14:46:49 - [30] - Quote Btw OP ... there's a swimsuit contest in C&P ...... Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.

Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21892	Posted - 2015.04.27 14:58:53 - [31] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Solecist Project wrote: lol facedesk You can't interrupt a fleet of 40 so you choose to band your head on a desk instead of finding friends willing to mess with incursionners. Your call I guess. doublefacedesk Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21894	Posted - 2015.04.27 17:19:31 - [32] - Quote If you think fully predictable content is hard ........ Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21894	Posted - 2015.04.27 17:24:56 - [33] - Quote Reminds me of all the carebears who said ... IT'S NOT ABOUT THE MONEY IT'S ABOUT THE COMMUNITY ... CCP lowered the income and boom, lies exposed as such. No I don't recall what they did. It doesn't matter at this point. Greedy people will not stop telling lies just to make or save money. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21894	Posted - 2015.04.27 17:26:48 - [34] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: Never understood the QQ about PVE content rewards. If you think its fantastic, go do it. There is literally nothing stopping you from doing it. At all. Always amazes me that folks will whine about **** that others do when they can do it themselves. If Incursions were so awesomesauce than they would be the #1 source of ISK entering the game, but they aren't that crown goes to NS Ratting/Anoms. You can make 800ish millions in three hours, reliably, in null? In absolute safety with CONCORD protection? Every day? Yeah, right. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21895	Posted - 2015.04.27 18:03:30 - [35] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: baltec1 wrote: Mario Putzo wrote: Never understood the QQ about PVE content rewards. If you think its fantastic, go do it. There is literally nothing stopping you from doing it. At all. Always amazes me that folks will whine about **** that others do when they can do it themselves. If Incursions were so awesomesauce than they would be the #1 source of ISK entering the game, but they aren't that crown goes to NS Ratting/Anoms. Why leave highsec for more risky space if you are earning the same or more in highsec? As for that "#1 source of isk" tidbit you are quoting it wrong. While null activities inject the most isk income levels for ratting is far below that of incursions. An incursion pilot will earn upwards of twice as much as your average anom ratter in null. Make ISK in HS, go to LS/NS/WH to PVP. Not really a hard concept. There is nothing saying you have to live in space to use that space. vOv. Also I am simply paraphrasing the numbers CCP showed at fanfest, where Nullsec Bounties represent the highest portion of ISK entering the game. Didn't say anything about individual incomes. So not sure what your point is in that regard. Incursions are pretty dank, but most of it is from LP, which isn't liquid ISK that ISK comes from other players who get it from sources like ratting, anoms and missions...fancy that. The game has no zones. One can fight anywhere. To say that people should leave highsec if they want combat is nonsense. If CCP wanted that, they would have removed player aggression from highsec. Which would be a rather daft thing to do. So your "concept" pretty much is only imaginary. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21896	Posted - 2015.04.27 18:16:14 - [36] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: Solecist Projec wrote: The game has no zones. One can fight anywhere. To say that people should leave highsec if they want combat is nonsense. If CCP wanted that, they would have removed player aggression from highsec. Which would be a rather daft thing to do. So your "concept" pretty much is only imaginary. True but combat in HS is needlessly complex. I mean I can gank, but that is a pretty shallow combat experience, I can wardec someone but they tend to just dock up, or I can just go to areas of space where I am more likely to find folks who are more likely to desire a combat engagement, why buy milk from the store when you can just go to the cow and get it for free. I agree on that. The biggest fun I ever had in highsec was as station grid bouncing, facpo evading -10, with people on my ass and constant entertaining of the masses with kills or chat. (don't believe a single word people say when they whine about the facpo) That's not being offered anywhere else though. Lowsec is rather boring and too easy and nullsec has bubbles, which I hate to the bone. Anyhow that's far off topic. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21896	Posted - 2015.04.27 18:22:14 - [37] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: FunGu Arsten wrote: Mario Putzo wrote: baltec1 wrote: Mario Putzo wrote: Never understood the QQ about PVE content rewards. If you think its fantastic, go do it. There is literally nothing stopping you from doing it. At all. Always amazes me that folks will whine about **** that others do when they can do it themselves. If Incursions were so awesomesauce than they would be the #1 source of ISK entering the game, but they aren't that crown goes to NS Ratting/Anoms. Why leave highsec for more risky space if you are earning the same or more in highsec? As for that "#1 source of isk" tidbit you are quoting it wrong. While null activities inject the most isk income levels for ratting is far below that of incursions. An incursion pilot will earn upwards of twice as much as your average anom ratter in null. Make ISK in HS, go to LS/NS/WH to PVP. Not really a hard concept. There is nothing saying you have to live in space to use that space. vOv. Also I am simply paraphrasing the numbers CCP showed at fanfest, where Nullsec Bounties represent the highest portion of ISK entering the game. Didn't say anything about individual incomes. So not sure what your point is in that regard. Incursions are pretty dank, but most of it is from LP, which isn't liquid ISK that ISK comes from other players who get it from sources like ratting, anoms and missions, with NS being the largest faucet by a sizable margin...fancy that. you mean 200mil liquid isk + 42k LP isnt alot in highsec? per hour .. on 1 account - no scouts, no rent, no sov costs, all the highsec markets at your feet.... there's some crybabyies in here QQing about incursions but you can't ignore the hard facts of incursionmilk And it is perfectly possible and acceptable for any pilot to engage in these activities. So again I am not sure what the issue is. If you want to suckle on the teet you only need to open your mouth. Elsewise its nothing but whining. If you want to live in 0.0 and only play in 0.0 cool, not everything is fair in EVE. Nothing at all stopping you from heading to HS every now and then to milk the cow. Seems like a bad case of entitlement to me. From my pov it's not the money, it's the lack of danger. I believe for nullseccers it's not the money either, but people not playing there because they have no reason to. THAT BEING SAID makes it look weird though, because it reduces most nullseccers to carebears. This reminds me so much of all these morons who cry I HAVE POWERFULL NULLSEC FRIENDS when they are being ganked in highsec ............. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21897	Posted - 2015.04.27 18:32:22 - [38] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Nick Bete wrote: Yawn, yet another of the stupid, trollish, and never ending nerf high sec income threads. No, OP. CCP has the numbers and a team that monitors the economic health of the game. If adjustments were needed then they would be made based off those numbers and not your selfish agenda. Hope this moronic rant gets locked for being redundant, non-constructive, trollish and inflammatory. CCP has the numbers alright and they know they are too high - see page 125 of the 2014 CSM minutes. CCP is waiting to see If the nullsec changes pull people back out to live in null. If they stay in highsec sucking on the teat of risk-free incursion ISK, which likely most will as it is too easy, then incursion income should expect a visit from the Nerf Bat soon. You know..... what if the issue really is that most nullseccers are actually carebears? Then no matter the amount, things would never change, because people would be too scared to leave highsec anyway ..... Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21898	Posted - 2015.04.27 18:38:56 - [39] - Quote Aaand if I take that thought even further ... ... then the real issue is actually the isk centric way of thinking. They have proven time and time again that income does not balance things out properly ... ... as can be seen through lowsec buffs/highsec nerfs. Yet for some reason people believe that reducing incursion income will make a difference. That's a funny viewpoint ... and completely invalidates every singke argument about income and how it makes people go here and there. So ... what would drive more people to null is not raising their income ... ... or loweeing the income in highsec ... ... but making null safer than highsec. Because then carebears would populate it. YOU CAN HAVE THEM ALL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH! Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21898	Posted - 2015.04.27 18:58:06 - [40] - Quote lol WORD he says, not actually thinking about what he read ... PLEASE go dec them with a properly sized corp and see what it brings. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.

Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21901	Posted - 2015.04.27 20:22:56 - [41] - Quote Why do you connect fun with income? The fun should be shooting them and fleeting up ... ... not the amount of ISK you make. That's the core issue. If CCP halved the income of incursions ... ... there might be a chance that only those run them ... ... who actually do it for the "challenge" (ha) ! Fun equalling income only exposes you as an uncaring greedy person. And as Pedro pointed out it's CCP themselves who say payouts are too high. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21910	Posted - 2015.04.28 05:38:06 - [42] - Quote Repping NPCs gets you CONCORDed or a warning from the GMs. Unlike you who just talk like an idiot I actually tried repping NPCs ... ... not Sanshas, but that doesn't matter ... ... and it's verboten, because ... ... well I forgot. That was in 2011 or something? So go ahead and rep them. Do it. Be a winner. lol You're all idiots. If anyone cared qbout change, they should cut incursion income to a quarter and then readjust eventually. BECAUSE NO ONE OF YOU HYPOCRIT LIARS ACTUALLY PLAYS FOR THE FUN OF IT YOU ALL JUST PLAY FOR THE GODDAMN MONEY! YOU PEOPLE ARE THE WORST OF THE WORST! Any and all discussions are pointless, because you incursion runners have no honesty in you. You just talk out of your asses just because you are greedy monsters. Goons should come to highsec and just end all incursions ASAP. We all will laugh at your tears of rage you stinking, worthless carebears. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21911	Posted - 2015.04.28 05:51:48 - [43] - Quote Carrie-Anne Moss wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Repping NPCs gets you CONCORDed or a warning from the GMs. Unlike you who just talk like an idiot I actually tried repping NPCs ... ... not Sanshas, but that doesn't matter ... ... and it's verboten, because ... ... well I forgot. That was in 2011 or something? So go ahead and rep them. Do it. Be a winner. lol You're all idiots. If anyone cared qbout change, they should cut incursion income to a quarter and then readjust eventually. BECAUSE NO ONE OF YOU HYPOCRIT LIARS ACTUALLY PLAYS FOR THE FUN OF IT YOU ALL JUST PLAY FOR THE GODDAMN MONEY! YOU PEOPLE ARE THE WORST OF THE WORST! Any and all discussions are pointless, because you incursion runners have no honesty in you. You just talk out of your asses just because you are greedy monsters. Goons should come to highsec and just end all incursions ASAP. We all will laugh at your tears of rage you stinking, worthless carebears. Can you please lend me some isk? Like 500mill? Tyvm. I dont wana bear 4 it Get a job. Buy PLEX. Sell on the market. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21912	Posted - 2015.04.28 05:56:11 - [44] - Quote Kaldi Tsukaya wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Repping NPCs gets you CONCORDed or a warning from the GMs. Unlike you who just talk like an idiot I actually tried repping NPCs ... ... not Sanshas, but that doesn't matter ... ... and it's verboten, because ... ... well I forgot. That was in 2011 or something? So go ahead and rep them. Do it. Be a winner. lol You're all idiots. If anyone cared qbout change, they should cut incursion income to a quarter and then readjust eventually. BECAUSE NO ONE OF YOU HYPOCRIT LIARS ACTUALLY PLAYS FOR THE FUN OF IT YOU ALL JUST PLAY FOR THE GODDAMN MONEY! YOU PEOPLE ARE THE WORST OF THE WORST! Any and all discussions are pointless, because you incursion runners have no honesty in you. You just talk out of your asses just because you are greedy monsters. Goons should come to highsec and just end all incursions ASAP. We all will laugh at your tears of rage you stinking, worthless carebears. Sol on a rampage GG You know what then happens? They will fill the forums with rage and worthless threats of unsubbing! We could only wish this to come true! Adjusting the rewards to the risk is pointless anyway. What CCP should do it cut the income down dramatically to see who is actually doing them for the fun of it and not just to fill their empty egos with pixelmoney! And THEN we can talk about it! Anything else is completely pointless! Aaaand quoted the wrong post. Meant to quote the one about risk/reward adjustment. In any way ... why can't goons do us all a favour and just end this? LET THE IMPERIUM TAKE OVER HIGHSEC! Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21912	Posted - 2015.04.28 05:59:17 - [45] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: Kaldi Tsukaya wrote: Np thanks. And fwiw, I live in highsec. This isn't about sec (ie null/vs/high) it is just about risk/reward imbalance for me. Add some risk and I could agree with the rewards. Meh im indifferent. The most profitable venture in EVE is trading, don't even need to undock for that! Risk/Reward is a joke anyway. It is a placebo catch all that people use to get what they want. If Risk/Reward was actually a balancing metric folks living in Low Sec would be shiting gold nuggets That being said, would be cool if Incursions blocked CONCORD. If you propose that as idea in F&I I will support and defend it to the teeth! Kaldi Tsukaya wrote: Better yet, donate that Plex to PLEX4GOOD. Do that and I'll give you that value in warships. You wished. "BUT I NEED THAT MONEY TO PLEX MY ACCOUNTS HOW CAN YOU ASK ME TO WASTE IT???" Or... "Oh sure here have a PLEX see I'm a good person!" ... not mentioning the hundreds of billions they have already. That's the reality of greed! Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21912	Posted - 2015.04.28 06:02:09 - [46] - Quote tiberiusric wrote: this is one thing i never get my head around with some people in this game why the hell would you ask for something like making is to be nerfed! You are missing the point. Completely. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21915	Posted - 2015.04.28 06:23:35 - [47] - Quote Ending this debate demands a thread in F&I, asking for ... ... cutting HS incursion income down to a quarter to see who actually runs them for the gameplay. ... removing CONCORD from sites, because it makes no sense whatsoever that they are there. ... a way to actually disrupt incursion farming. The current situation does not allow for that at all. Wardecs are pointless and suicide ganking does not allow for successfull disruption. In any case are incursions the opposite of what this game is about. There is no way to counter incursioneers successfully, continuously, and there is no amount of ISK that could change that. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21916	Posted - 2015.04.28 07:15:02 - [48] - Quote No. Stay real, not theoretical. When a situation is 100% predictable the amount of risk is zero. The only way to lose a ship is when the logi fails and for that there are multiple around to prevent danger. The risk is not there at all. Theory is irrelevant. What matters is what's actual reality, which shows that the only risk of losing is when people CONCORD themselves by having safety off and shooting the wrong ship. A d that one simply doesn't count. The ONLY reason why they field blingy ships is because they know they wont lose them! That's all there is to it! Believing anything else means believing greedy people love to take risks. Nonsense! Discussing theory is nonsense. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21918	Posted - 2015.04.28 07:32:46 - [49] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Ending this debate demands a thread in F&I, asking for ... ... cutting HS incursion income down to a quarter to see who actually runs them for the gameplay. ... removing CONCORD from sites, because it makes no sense whatsoever that they are there. ... a way to actually disrupt incursion farming. The current situation does not allow for that at all. Wardecs are pointless and suicide ganking does not allow for successfull disruption. In any case are incursions the opposite of what this game is about. There is no way to counter incursioneers successfully, continuously, and there is no amount of ISK that could change that. Well, there is one way, killing the mom. Which does not count as interference, because the mom only shows up at the end. The fact that people deliberately let their mom live to squeeze even more ISK out of it is a different topic. lol their mom. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21920	Posted - 2015.04.28 08:07:06 - [50] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: I guess disrupt needs defined, killing the incursion in under a day seems pretty disruptive. If defining it as successfully killing the runners, not sure that needs addressed. Not really much reason a 100k EHP ship with logi support needs to be more likely to die in an incursion than anywhere else in the same circumstance. Was there another for of disruption you had in mind? NPC alt. 5.0sec status. Considering that you seem to believe that killing the mom counts as interference or disruption (it doesn't) I guess you're an incursion runner? The mom shows up at the end, when everything is set and done already. Killing the mom would not "interfere" or "disrupt". It would end it. "Interfering" or "disrupting" does not need a definition, because they already have one. Incursioneers might see it as "interference", but them simply not popping the mom out of greed does not change the definition of words. I have used both words, btw, throughout this thread. In anyway does killing the mom count as neither. I guess I can't stress that enough. Interference. Meaning to hinder/stop them temporarily, and force them to counter the interference. I don't really see the difference to "disrupting their activity", btw. What matters is that there is no sane way to force them to stop. There is no sane way to stop/hinder/counter their activities, which is completely unEVE. All options we know are of no use, as has been said in this thread already over and over again. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.

Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21920	Posted - 2015.04.28 08:28:21 - [51] - Quote So you refuse to acknowledge that "popping the mom" does not have anything to do with interference, but is actually ending the incursion? Because that's what it does. It ends it. It's only interference in the eyes of the greedy people who want to keep milking it. Yes, you're an incursion runner and thus a rather questionable person to discuss this with. Anyways. Feel free to read through the whole thread. There is no need to keep repeating the same things over and over again. Once you have done that and educated yourself on the "why's" and "how not's" we can keep talking. I repeat: There is absolutely no need to keep repeating the same **** over and over again, just because there are people who do not want to do so. You can try this stupid trick with other people. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21920	Posted - 2015.04.28 08:54:06 - [52] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: Final response because I won't be trolled into getting this thread closed with a mud slinging contest that drowns out the content. If people are trying to run site and you end those sites it interferes. It's like any other sort of resource interference where one party has the chance to deplete something another is using or exploiting. It's a pretty basic concept. The fact that the act of denial occurs through use of the same mechanic is irrelevant. The way it's being exploited allows that interference to be meaningful to the very people you are trying to effect. To the other point there is nothing in the thread which justifies special interference. There isn't anything in an incursion pocket that dictates a fleet comp should have anything to fear that it otherwise wouldn't save the complications brought by the content itself. I'd ask why you feel otherwise, and have, but I'm confident you won't answer. If your argument for this is that the content is too lucrative then the issue lies there, not with a perceived lack of interference. If you can't take down the fleet outside the site and the difference of being in the incursion doesn't make up the slack you don't deserve to take them down. Also, no, I don't run incursions. I haven't in over a year. I just don't feel your point makes sense and you refuse to clarify. So I guess we're done. It's not trolling just because I refuse to rehash what has been written all over this thread. Thank you for admitting that you are indeed running, or were running, incursions, and thus are a questionable person to discuss the topic with. I'm sorry, but "ending" does not in any way or form equal "interference". Popping the mom would not interfere with running the incursion until the mom shows up. Also, you show that you did not read through the thread and thus have absolutely nothing valid to say. Simply popping in and demanding to know what has been written already ... ... lol yeah, but calling me a troll. That's all you people do. When you are outmatched the other person is a troll. You're a hypocrite and never had anything valid to say. Thanks for your participation. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21920	Posted - 2015.04.28 09:04:05 - [53] - Quote So ... can this be ended now? There is nothing more to add. Opinions are irrelevant. What matters is cold, hard reality, of which details can be found spread out in this thread. At least for those who are able to see beyond opinionated bullshitting. There is no sane way to interfere with incursions at all. Popping the mom does not count, because the mom symbolises the end. Once it's gone the incursion ends and all the farming has been done already. Furthermore do greedy people, who deliberately not shoot the mom, actually hurt the ingame reality from the perspective of "lore", because they deliberately let millions of people get zombified by the Sanshas. What CCP should do is cut the income down to a quarter and then see who actually runs them for the "fun" and not for the "greed". That would be a good step to determine what should be done next. Dare I say we'd see a huge drop in fleets running incursions ... ... because it is highly likely most people mistake satisfying their ego through isk with "fun". All relevant details can be found with in this thread. Anything else I forgot? Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21920	Posted - 2015.04.28 09:07:02 - [54] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: Should have stuck with my guns on the prior post but failing that: I opted out because you aren't interested in a conversation. You refuse to defend your point and only deflect, you dismiss the points of others as "stupid tricks" and your 2nd to last line contains sufficient justification for the accusation of troll along side the series of ad hominem fallacies you started punctuating you posts with. ...and here I am taking the bait. I suppose I should congratulate that victory There is no need to "defend a point". You fail to read through the thread and want people to rehash what is already being written. This is complete nonsense and can be dismissed completely. If you wished to participate, you would read through the thread. That's all there is to it. Furthermore are you mistaking me for someone like you. There is no "victory". I do not give a single **** about opinions. What matters is facts and reality. You and so many others come here discussing their opinions, as if that had any relevance at all. Most people are completely incapable of seperating "what they see" with "what is actually going on", thus completely vaporising any "arguments" they have in the first place. Thank you for your participation. I will respond again if you have anything relevant to say ... ... but I also will make sure to point out the flaws in what people like you post. Cheers. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21920	Posted - 2015.04.28 09:11:25 - [55] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Solecist Project wrote: So ... can this be ended now? There is nothing more to add. Opinions are irrelevant. What matters is cold, hard reality, of which details can be found spread out in this thread. At least for those who are able to see beyond opinionated bullshitting. There is no sane way to interfere with incursions at all. Popping the mom does not count, because the mom symbolises the end. Once it's gone the incursion ends and all the farming has been done already. Furthermore do greedy people, who deliberately not shoot the mom, actually hurt the ingame reality from the perspective of "lore", because they deliberately let millions of people get zombified by the Sanshas. What CCP should do is cut the income down to a quarter and then see who actually runs them for the "fun" and not for the "greed". That would be a good step to determine what should be done next. Dare I say we'd see a huge drop in fleets running incursions ... ... because it is highly likely most people mistake satisfying their ego through isk with "fun". All relevant details can be found with in this thread. Anything else I forgot? and people might start moving to other profitable parts of space to make isk instead of living in the incursion bubble where they dont need to actually go anywhere because highsec safety and the best money available Well, it would be a start to find out who actually runs them for fun. That would be tremendously helpfull in analysing and fixing the situation. People who start doing other things expose themselves as the ones who only care about the ISK. What matters is giving others a way to interfere with what these people are doing. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21920	Posted - 2015.04.28 09:18:43 - [56] - Quote And I told you that you can read through the thread and find out yourself. If you refuse to do so, then you have no ground to join in. Just try to think about it for a minute. Every few pages some new person would come up and ask for the exact same thing. This is actual reality in so many other threads and it leads exactly nowhere. Thus ... read up on what's written. It's there for a reason. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21920	Posted - 2015.04.28 09:34:57 - [57] - Quote sighs Because it exists for literally everything else that is being done in space, except AFK cloaking, which is a completely different matter and not the topic. (AFK cloaking looks like it is going to be addressed, btw) As you already know by reading through the thread, there is absolutely no sane way to interfere. Wardeccing is pointless, as they will drop corp and reform or simply stay in NPC corps. Suicide ganking is pointless, as there is no sane way to stop an incursion fleet. As baltec1 pointed out, it's not trivial to shoot down a fleet of battleships with logi support. The cost of doing so would far outweigh any potential benefit and still would not make anyone actually leave the field. It has been answered already. You are asking the wrong question. It's not "Why should that capacity exist only in the case of an incursion?". This makes me wonder if you actually play the game. It's "Why should incursions be the only thing that can't reasonably be interfered with by players?" Because ... as has been written already ... it's simply not doable. Incursion runners can run their incursions day and night, all day long. If there was a sane way to interfere then people would obviously be doing it. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21921	Posted - 2015.04.28 10:01:57 - [58] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: The question you ask is actually simple to answer. The answer is, if other activities used similar fleet compositions they would be just as difficult and unfeasible to interfere with. Mining doesn't prohibit such a composition. Level 4 missions don't prohibit such a composition. They are highly unnecessary and as such don't occur save rare occasions if at all, but doable to the same effect. I'm aware a tanked BS group is non-trivial to take down, especially with logi support, which seems to be the point of such a configuration. So to the question of why incursions are unique in regard to their inability to be interfered with, it's because they more or less mandate resilient configurations. So I ask as a hypothetical, if I run such a config while missioning, does that create the need to alter missions to allow additional interference? The fact that the content mandates you harden up reducing player capacity to interfere is certainly a reason for reducing income because a factor of risk is all but removed, I just don't see the connection to otherwise changing the rules of how ships work together. To me this is no different to mining in a max tank skiff philosophically; you won't lose your ship unless someone is really determined despite the cost or you make a really dumb mistake. The reason why I believe interference should be allowed, is because of the insanely high income people can make without any risk whatsoever. We have covered the risk factor extensively already and I won't go through that again. I never cared about the income. The only reason why I bought up "cutting the income" was to see who actually really cares about running incursions and who is just a greedy person. From my POV they can have the money, but then there should be a way to properly interfere. You are right that similar fleet compositions would make it similar hard to interfere, but I'm not sure that counts as argument, because that's not what we are seeing in reality. Actually, I'm sure most people would cheer if mining fleets would be set up this way. A known counter to such a fleet would be bumping, btw. Bumping mining ships out of range of the logi is rather hard (hugh jass logi range) ... ... but bumping them out of range of asteroids isn't. An effective counter to that would be webbing them, but that would alter the fittings of the fleet considerably. In any way, there is another big difference between mining, mission running and incursions. Anyone who wants to interfere with the incursioneers (isthatevenaword?) would also have to deal with the Sanshas. Incursioneers are indirectly protected by Sanshas, as they would attack those who try to interfere as well, making it significantly harder. Belt rats or mission NPCs aren't even close to the threat Sanshas are. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21921	Posted - 2015.04.28 10:27:48 - [59] - Quote Kamala wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Why do you connect fun with income? The fun should be shooting them and fleeting up ... ... not the amount of ISK you make. Says who? Those who understand how it works. Satisfying greed is not connected to what "fun" is. "Fun" a completely different thing. Finding satisfaction in filling your pockets with space pixels is compensation. Filling the wallet is secondary. What matters here is the perception of "being better", or "filling the hole in yourself". Related to "consumerism" btw. You probably don't know ... ... but marketing isn't about selling you something ... ... it's about making you want something. Companies don't sell you things ... ... they make you feel inadequate when you don't have them. That's good marketing. Some try to sell you "lifestyle" or "good feelings". They make you believe that you miss out on something. See also: Coca Cola. Then there are those who want to sell you the idea of importance. They make you believe that you are someone by owning something. See also: Apple, Ikea, Car manufacturers, many others. Even though you might wrongly interpret it as "fun" to fill your pockets with ISK, or buying crap you don't actually need for your life, in the end it's nothing more but compensation. Amassing wealth from greed is nothing else than the desire to be better than others ... see "feeling inadequate". Usually people reject this instead of simply educating themselves about ... ... well ... themselves. Glad I was able to answer your question. I could write a few pages about this. About amarrians. Carebears. But ... no thanks, not getting paid for it. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21925	Posted - 2015.04.28 11:39:18 - [60] - Quote Well actually the secstatus and faction police is the least worry of them all. Typical. I too would like to know, just like baltec. Let's wait for it ..... Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.

Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21925	Posted - 2015.04.28 11:46:30 - [61] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Violet Hurst wrote: Please try to stay with the skirmish, don't go back to the war. LP don't contribute to ISK inflation. It doesn't matter if it's only 1000 pilots who achieve 20% of the current ISK influx. Risk from scripted entities (Sansha NPCs) has nothing to do with ISK springing. We are not talking about isk inflation we are talking about individual income which is where highsec is out of whack. Sorry, but no where in history did nerfing highsec/buffing othersec ... ... actually make people leave it. That has been tried and tried again and it never worked. Your point, afaik, that people stay in highsec because of the money is invalid. People stay in highsec, because it's safe and easy. If you want your sheep to play in nullsec ... ... then ask for a feature that makes nullsec safer. In the end you might regret it, because you'll only attract worthless carebears anyway. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21925	Posted - 2015.04.28 11:53:47 - [62] - Quote lol typical carebearspeak. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21926	Posted - 2015.04.28 12:01:17 - [63] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Dont care about people with no interest in taking any risk. If CCP are going to make this new sov to work then they have to deal all areas of space. Fozziesov is going to require people to live in null to hold space so the need to make it worth living out there. Right now highsec offers better reward so that needs to change or fozziesov will fail. But you are missing the point, baltec. No matter the rewards, as soon as people see danger, they will either dock up or simply not come at all. I have stopped believing that the majority of nullseccers is any different than the majority of highseccers. You will have the best chances by promising people security. I am not for or against null ... ... but the money approach doesn't work. It caters to the greedy people ... ... and those don't want to lose. Besides being crappy people to have around anyway. If people in nullsec really cared about nullsec ... ... then they'd not care about rewards. I've seen plenty of undone sites when I moved towards VFK ... ... with people docked up and not running them. I would run them. Why? Because I am not a coward and I don't care about relative income. Think about it ... nerfing income anywhere else will yield nothing. Buffing income in null equally will yield nothing. The isk centric way of thinking is the wrong approach. What you need is people who aren't greedy and/or cowards ... ... or providing CONCORD like security ... ... or a nationwide SRP. I have been watching this for years now ... ... and people always ask for the same **** ... ... with the absolute same outcome every time. But hey... why listen... just keep repeating the same thing ad infinitum... Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21926	Posted - 2015.04.28 12:04:25 - [64] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: baltec1 wrote: Dont care about people with no interest in taking any risk. If CCP are going to make this new sov to work then they have to deal all areas of space. Fozziesov is going to require people to live in null to hold space so the need to make it worth living out there. Right now highsec offers better reward so that needs to change or fozziesov will fail. And here is the reason, they hate it that people can have fun in making themselves space rich and they cannot get at them without effort, its all about frustration... Compensation != fun. You are nothing more than a hypocrite and hater. You just hide it better than the rest. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21927	Posted - 2015.04.28 12:08:54 - [65] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Dracvlad wrote: If anyone takes the time to think it through there are multiple ways to interfere with Incursions List some, liar, or admit that you're blowing smoke. Every single one who has been called out on it was unable to bring up anything BUT smoke and bullshit ... ... mostly because they have no clue of the matter anyway. Anyhow... all you people only ever thinking about isk. That's so shortsighted, it's incredible. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21928	Posted - 2015.04.28 12:20:30 - [66] - Quote Weaklings. (: List some, if you are so sure. We'll pick them apart, one by one, because you people just talk out of your inexperienced asses anyway. :) Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21928	Posted - 2015.04.28 12:22:47 - [67] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Dracvlad wrote: I have run anoms in 0.0 and got a lot more than 60m an hours, if that is squeezing the most ISK out of that activity then you are either a fool or a liar, I was doing 110m an hour in Cobalt Edge and that ignored the selling on of escalations... No you weren't. Provide the ship and fit please. Btw technically he's right about saying he never lost a carrier. When you have none, you can't lose one. Anyhow I suggest that you stop eating the hatebait. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21929	Posted - 2015.04.28 12:26:11 - [68] - Quote Melenos wrote: I make a lot more with explo. Nef explo plz. Regarding incursions: The isk/hour isn't that great., Also you loose one shiny ship to the ocasional sucide ganks and you're prett much lost a months income. So, not that troublesome. Also, i feel like most of the time the people that complaining are those oh-so-hardcore 1-jump-in-lowsec self-declared pirates who simply want more easy gank targets. But guys, the isk you destroy need to be generated somehow, so let the carebears be carebears. NPC alt bait, beware. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21931	Posted - 2015.04.28 13:20:14 - [69] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Dracvlad wrote: because Jenn is in the top group, she Is not a she, Jenn is a big huge middle aged black man. While I'm all for consequences and thus addressing people with their char's sex ... ... why do you even know that? Sheeeeeeesh ......... xD Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21933	Posted - 2015.04.28 13:28:51 - [70] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: afkalt wrote: Wait, are we really comparing afktar income to a fleet operation of multiple billions of battleships? Really? Reaaaaaaaally? Also, one can make 200m/hour clean in a mere C3 with yourself and an alt...incursions...pfffffft We're comparing the personal income potential of people using ships in unprotected (except by human effort) space to the higher income of people using ships in npc protected space (with the additional protection of a dedicated squad of tech2 logistics ships. We're comparing the higher personal/individual income in NPC protected space that is 'free' for everyone to the lower or barley equal incomes in space you have to WORK for (null), space that is more dangerous (low) and space that is the MOST dangerous (WHs) If you actually read the thread, you will see my own direct comparison.. Machariel Hull flown by me, 2 bil isk fit, flying with The Valhalla Project and making almost twice the isk per hour as the same ship in null sec with exclusive (no one else in system) access to the best anomalies (forsaken hubs, havens and sanctums). I'll let wormhole and low sec guys make their own comparisons. The ONLY think more broken than high sec incursions are Faction Warfare Missions (which I also do, hell, the FW corp I'm in actually has the word FARMING in it's name lol) where being able to pilot a Stealth Bomber (purifier in my case, it's best against the amarr rats) means you can make more isk in an hour than you can in incursions and anomalies combined... Quote: Also, one can make 200m/hour clean in a mere C3 with yourself and an alt...incursions...pfffffft Congrats on demonstrating that you can make a whopping 20 mil per hour more (in the deadliest space EVE has) than a shiny incursion fleet memebr (180 mil per hour) can in the single most protected kind of space EVE has...which proves that the imbalances we speak of are real. Like i said, this discussion is like autopiloting, people prove my point without me even having to try lol. Diana Kim told me she makes 800mill in three hours with incursions. And she has no reason to lie, she farms them only to buy ships. Active caldari militia member, prominent roleplayer. That was last year, I think late summer. I am losing track of how much one cwn actually earn. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.

Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21939	Posted - 2015.04.28 14:28:43 - [71] - Quote CSM Minutes, last year, page 125. Kaa already pointed it out. CCP believes as well that it's too much. Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 21940	Posted - 2015.04.28 14:44:46 - [72] - Quote afkalt wrote: Solecist Project wrote: CSM Minutes, last year, page 125. Kaa already pointed it out. CCP believes as well that it's too much. To be fair they said "potentially". Then buffed them immediate after. Mixed messages there! Ah. Had no idea about the timing. Yeah that's kind of nonsensical. As if one hand had no idea what the other does. That's totally unheard of from CCP! snickers xD Bumping is fine, Ganking is fine. The real issue are Carebears. Bad people wishing ill and death upon on all of us. The obvious solution is to wipe them out and make sure they don't come back. Let's kill them all for the good of EVEmanity.
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22196	Posted - 2015.04.29 11:27:35 - [73] - Quote Mithandra wrote: Do they pay out too much isk for the risk... obviously Am I going to jump on the nerf incursions bandwagon.. nope Why? Because I don't do them and they don't affect the way I play. And before you start. Im not interested in your 400 pages of financial asshattery "proving" that incursions are killing eve, cos I look out of my window and see shedloads of people playing the game still. Nit caring about the greater good is pretty common nowadays. As long as they only detain everyone else it's all fine. No need to raise your voice about it. When they come for you, there will be no one left to raise his voice. Selfish prick. I wish you a slow, agonising death with screams and tears of pain and horror. Have everything you posess taken away from you. Most importantly ... yourself. Corpses4Drifters
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22206	Posted - 2015.04.29 12:05:45 - [74] - Quote Yeah that's actually common practise nowadays. It's a great way to influence the masses. ^_^ I wish you a slow, agonising death with screams and tears of pain and horror. Have everything you posess taken away from you. Most importantly ... yourself. Corpses4Drifters
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22267	Posted - 2015.04.29 13:43:21 - [75] - Quote Drifters in incursions ... ... popping Sanshas faster than players ... ... popping the moms ... ... and even the players. That would be glorious! I wish you a slow, agonising death with screams and tears of pain and horror. Have everything you posess taken away from you. Most importantly ... yourself. Corpses4Drifters
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22354	Posted - 2015.04.29 17:28:29 - [76] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: Losing a ships in PVP isn't risk it is incompetence. Actually, after writing that long post I realise that ... ... there's only one thing to say about this line. lol. I wish you a slow, agonising death with screams and tears of pain and horror. Have everything you posess taken away from you. Most importantly ... yourself. Corpses4Drifters
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22400	Posted - 2015.04.29 19:27:42 - [77] - Quote That last line kind of makes no sense... I wish you a slow, agonising death with screams and tears of pain and horror. Have everything you posess taken away from you. Most importantly ... yourself. Corpses4Drifters
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22446	Posted - 2015.04.29 22:20:27 - [78] - Quote I'm sorry, but with space in nullsec being abandoned ... ... does that mean I can just go there and plant my [things] and ... then what? DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22575	Posted - 2015.04.30 14:45:38 - [79] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: baltec1 wrote: Mario Putzo wrote: Well facts show this is just plain wrong. NA - ~10K peak renters PBLRD- ~4K peak renters BOT - ~5K peak renters X.W.X - ~5K peak renters ~24K renters over the past 2 years CHOSE to enter into Sov NS, because the barriers were removed for them. These 24K people could have just as easily stayed in HS and got better rewards, but they didn't they chose to enter into NS, for whatever reason. And all of them idiots. Seems like a solid rebuttal. "No one is going to go to NS because the rewards suck" -What about these 24K people- "Oh those ones are just idiots" So which is it, are people going to enter null when barriers of entry change or no? Or will only more idiots enter null? Seems to be quite a lot of idiots there already if thats the case...or maybe, folks go to null for reasons other than isk/hr? Whats your opinion on the other ~20K folks who have entered into NS in the last couple years, the ones who didn't pay to live in someones castle? Are they idiots too? Or the ones who more recently join the likes of Pandemic Horde, and Karmafleet, are they also idiots? Funny how you compare apples, oranges and bananas. You seem angry, because you just can'g manage to get anyone to tell you that you're right. Yeah it really seems like that. Renters were idiots. And not only that, were many of them carebears. How I know? From every single whine about afk cloaking ... ... and me being smart enough to read up about how it works. Renters were carefully chosen. The last thing any alliance wants ... ... is to invite the enemy right into it's territory. Carebears were the easy and reliable way. Idiots who do nothing else but farming pixel money. Horde, Karma etc are there to get them into Null from the start. That's not comparable to players who started in highsec. It's not comparable to anything ... but BNI. These people might ha e a chance not to become idiots ... ... and those who already are will drop out anyways. DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
Solecist Project Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 22757	Posted - 2015.05.02 06:33:39 - [80] - Quote Kaye Kaye wrote: I play solo so don't run incursions, but... It bugs me when players can't see past their personal game. There are over 500,000 accounts with at least over 100,000 players. You should be able to find something to do in game without changing someone Else's. That's not possible. Ignorance doesn't magically change how reality works. Whatever you do affects someone else ... ... even absense of influence, because you could have. There is not a single thing you can do ... ... nowhere, ever ... ... that doesn't so somehow have effects on others. Maybe try being less ignorant, self centered and antisocial. Ha... yeah, right. DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!

Solecist Project Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD 24243	Posted - 2015.05.13 07:57:17 - [81] - Quote SilentAsTheGrave wrote: If high sec Incursions bother you so much; why don't you start suicide tanking them? You do it to freighters that are 100% empty "for the lulz" so why don't you go after them? Afraid of a target that can shoot back? And this is what happens when someone doesn't read through the thread ... ... and believes he magically had an original thought no one came up with. And it's a hater too. S.O.L. GANKING4GOOD Abolish Rookiecorps.
Solecist Project Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD 24243	Posted - 2015.05.13 08:04:58 - [82] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Solecist Project wrote: SilentAsTheGrave wrote: If high sec Incursions bother you so much; why don't you start suicide tanking them? You do it to freighters that are 100% empty "for the lulz" so why don't you go after them? Afraid of a target that can shoot back? And this is what happens when someone doesn't read through the thread ... ... and believes he magically had an original thought no one came up with. And it's a hater too. you get to the stage where you are just repeating the same info to new people who dont care to look through all the previous pages Yeah, which is nonsensical to do. Yet people do it, instead of pointing at the thread. And THAT makes it worse, because they legitimate these stupid posts that way. S.O.L. GANKING4GOOD Abolish Rookiecorps.
Solecist Project Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD 24458	Posted - 2015.05.14 11:20:30 - [83] - Quote leavemymomalone idiot wrote: end incursions? dont be stoopid, asking mummy and daddy to step in because you think its risk free isk does not make it true, its a sand box not a theme park. you dont like something do as we do. Fix it yourself. i was born from the desire to stop arseholes killing the mom too early, our fleet of pilots never show up on killmails, we fly in and jam the logi pilots and let the sansha do the killing, ending incursions would end the point of my existence and all the other pilots in band of blackbirds. you think its risk free isk, i am here to tell you i know its not risk free. The payments of isk and lp are not too large if anything i would say buff the payments. your going to need the isk. Stupid name. Hiding behind an npc alt. Can't spell properly. Yeah, totally worth taking seriously and absolutely honest. S.O.L. GANKING4GOOD Abolish Rookiecorps. Baaldor > ... Sol's Haiku manner of response ...
Solecist Project Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD 24490	Posted - 2015.05.14 14:35:39 - [84] - Quote GankYou wrote: leavemymomalone idiot wrote: i was born from the desire to stop arseholes killing the mom too early, our fleet of pilots never show up on killmails, we fly in and jam the logi pilots and let the sansha do the killing, HAHAHA. Excellent. It's funny how she says it's a sandbox ... ... and at the same time insults the players who play sandboxxy. And to top that she doesn't realise that greed isn't a right. Or doesn't realise greed. Hypocrites. S.O.L. GANKING4GOOD Abolish Rookiecorps. Baaldor > ... Sol's Haiku manner of response ...

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